Otaku, Cedric's weblog

Seen the rampant fraud with credit cards and cheque I simply decided to say "no" to both these broken methods of payment. I live in Europe, which may help... But to me since a lloonngg time it's no more cheque and no more credit card. Bank transfer (and international bank transfer) are easy and way more secure than anything else (not only do you need to use a cryptographic device generating keys to log in but you *also* do need to generate a key when you want to pay an important amount). Ca-sh is always handy and... I've got PayPal. And before someone jumps in and say "wait, you need a credit card to open a PayPal account" I'll answer: no, you don't. I opened a PayPal account without having a credit card (hint: if you sell something you can provision an empty PayPal account). It may not be "convenient" to never use cheque and never use a credit card, but the whole point, for me, is that I do *not* want to deal with exactly what you're going through now. It may not be much of a hassle, but for me it's too much. Btw I never *ever* allow automatic withdrawal from any of my accounts neither. I decide about every single cents that goes out of my account. I may change my mind about credit card once of my bank propose a nice "one-time use" credit card generator. But for cheques, it's "no, thank you very much".

Not having a credit card linked to the PayPal account also present the advantage of not being at risk of being screwed by PayPal.

So, you see, your world is made of cheques and credit card . Mine is made of many secure wire transfers, small ca-sh amounts and a tiny PayPal account. That's the nice thing in this world: choice.

Btw, if you happen to know people doing "VPC" ("Vente par correspondance", I don't know the term in english) in Europe, ask them what's the trend in payments: people *hate* credit card with a passion here and wire-transfer (no fee, neither for seller nor for buyer) are getting bigger and bigger.

I'm selling my car and the buyer is proposing a cheque "certified by the bank" ? I give them an 'F' than an 'U'.

Why do people hate credit cards and cheques and why is wire-transfer becoming *huge* here in Europe ? Rampant fraud and problems to get things back in order once you get defrauded VS a secure, two form authentication method (Something You Know - you PIN and user number and Something You Have: you cryptographic device generating one-time use tokens).

If you think about it for a second, credit card and cheques are insecure and broken (OK, one-time use CC number may be fine if done correctly, but we've already exhausted the keyspace, which poses problems of its own).

Choice.

I followed almost the same path:

1) BofA : bad customer support
2) switched to Wells Fargo : less worst customer support but still bad + too much fees.
3) ended up and finally happy with "Washington Mutual": great customer service + no fees ...

If you still want to give a try for BofA, well I cannot stop u but probability will be against u :-)

good luck!

Check to see if you can manage some sort of elite status at whatever bank you choose. You will find that you can still get good service if you have the c-ash (silly content filter) or are willing to pay some fees.

I'm an HSBC Premier member in the US & UK. If I call customer service a real human being answers the phone, no wading through phone menus. The first time I called I thought I dialed the wrong number. I laughed when my membership materials were delivered in a very nice box made from bamboo. Since I don't have tons of c-ash sitting in either account there are fees for Premier status... but they are easily offset by all the free services (like international transfers.)

You may also want to investigate using a brokerage account as your main bank. Many will issue checks/cards and provide the usual services that a bank will. They haven't all stooped to the lowest common denominator for customer service (yet) either.

You should just stick with Bank of Ironforge.

It would be nice if the US caught up with the rest of Europe and offered bank transfers the way they do.
To the international audience: A bank transfer here requires multiple forms in triplicate and usually costs at least US$15 - US$30 each.

Cedric, you might look at a credit union as well. They're generally still small, insured (NCUA(sp?) instead of FDIC) and often have low fees, high interest and good service.

hi cedric,

"if you happen upon my post and you read through the hundreds of comments, you can't really miss the fact that a lot of people have already advised me against switching to Bank of America. What could possibly compel you to add comment #190 saying the same thing?"

Not everyone is setup to read comments(contributions). They read your post and would like to add their comment!

BR,
~A

maybe the reason no one commented on the level of protection/service you should have received is that the point was obvious.

"after verifying that it was indeed a human being"

Turing test?

That was the funniest post-storm I've ever seen.

I noticed a few things--probably not interesting.

- The first bunch of posts were civil (regular readers), you can see just where it splits off into name-calling when the "others" hit it.
- When your server started to slow down, the "Noobs" hit the post key a lot--we know better :)
- People sure are opinionated about banks.

May I add my own opinion to the list (I'm sure you are tired of reading them, but maybe it's a little different)

The trick is to get to know your bankers. Show up and chat with them. Make sure you home l0an and checking accounts are in the same bank. If they seem good, bring them more business. Handle all your problems in person or over the phone with a banker that you have worked with before.

This works best--and I mean AMAZINGLY WELL with a small bank or credit union.

The problem is that where you live this may not be an option. I live in Spokane, Washington and have been able to strike such a relationship with WAMU employees--Last time I checked the WAMUs throughout southern-middle California had extremely large crowds. Up here it's a real event if we have more than 4 people waiting.

I've had fees--but they have always been canceled when I looked hurt and pissed but kept a friendly tone. This has worked through a series of 3 different contacts over time--as one leaves they often "Transfer" you to someone who can take care of you.

I had the same type of service through my CU in Beaverton, OR. I still keep an account there (although it's been idle since WAMU has been so good and is local). I can still call and talk to people who know me by name.

It's also a pretty nice feeling to be able to walk in and say nothing more than "Can I have twenty dollars" (No ID, no paperwork), sign a slip they print out for you and walk out with $20... (Well for me at least, I hate any form of paperwork).

ps. I'd do almost anything to work for Google, but I won't move back to California for anything. My loss :(

pps. My post was blocked because of the word "L0an"--as in:

Your comment could not be submitted due to questionable content: L0an

If It had also blocked "Bank" I would have just assumed you didn't want to hear any more of the crap from the last post and not re-submitted it, but no--it was just 1oan. what the heck?

Actually you can avoid checks for pretty much everything...you can even pay your day care or lawn service with an online payment (both Wells and BofA should offer this). If the payment cannot be made electronically, a paper check is cut and mailed. And you do get higher protection. Many of the people you may owe money too often let you sign up online and make a payment that way as well through their website.

CheckFree, Paytrust, Yodlee all offer pieces and parts of this service, either directly or behind the scenes.

And yes, you won't eliminate checks...but you will be very happy...if you're like me...to use 1 or 2 a month as opposed to 10 or 12.

I _rarely_ write checks. And I hated Bank of America. Their customer service was poor and their fees were excessive.

mbg

What a story! Thank you for that good laugh in the morning!

Cedric,

I have been with BofA since 1999 and have never had a problem. Their online services are great and their customer service is pretty competent. Is this the only +ve review for BofA?

I'm sure people got the point of your post, but most people also wanted to help you out.

Don't get me wrong: thank you for the information! Now, have I ever told you why I'll never use Vonage again? ;)

You forgot the statistic of:

Number of Google Engineers who realize cancelling a range of checks doesn't do much if someone has the routing number, bank account number, and name (they can just print more with a larger check number) : hopefully 1

I just want to confirm what Mike said above. I have BofA and I have them send checks from my account all the time. I setup the payment and it takes about 4 days for the check to get to the recipient. There is no charge for the service either. I can schedule the payments as well.

Hi Cedric!
actualy i wanted to write earlier but i had no time then, my Bank is BofA too, i'm very pleased with their customer service, there are very good personal bankers in SF at 1 Powell BofA , especially the best guys over there are Vinie and Kirk, you can speak with them at the bank to solve anykind of problem!

yesterday when i finished my graveyard shift i went to MUNI but i realised that i had no C A S H with me, also , i messed up my ATM card's pin, so imagine i wanna go home, but i don't have any money :), tough situation... after staying in cold for half an hour, decided to go BofA office at 1 Powell, my office is near that place like 6 blocks, i went there, but it was 7am :) it was closed, the MUNI personal didn't let me in :D, then i've called to the number on ATM cards back, after i chose option to speak to represenative i was connected to one, after answering all the information regarding to my account, he activated my card back! Hooray!!! it was really cool!!! i took my money right away "in a second" and went home, i'm so excited about such customer service :))

Hello
How Are You Doing Today i will like to deposit some money in ur account i will like u to give me ur account number and tell me how much is in it so that when i deposited the money in ur account i will know what to do