I just had one of the most frustrating phone conversations with Wells Fargo I
have had in a long time.
It’s not the first time, and over the past months, Wells Fargo has managed to
irritate me on so many little details that I was slowly beginning to consider
closing my account with them. The only thing that held me back is the
annoyance that comes with such a decision, since I already have quite a few
automatic deposits and withdrawals on my checking account. I’m not afraid
of transferring them to a new account, but I am concerned that I might forget to
transfer one, which could result in defaulting on certain payments and some bad
consequences for my credit history. So I tolerated their lame online
banking site, tiresome phone support and the various fees that they slap me with
for no reason now and then.
Not any more.
It started innocently: I ordered new checks two weeks ago, and a few
days later, I noticed a box in my mailbox as I was heading out in the morning.
I made a mental note that my checks had arrived and left, but when I came back
at night, the box was no longer there. I looked in the various places that
I might have put it, but it didn’t turn up, so at this point, I decided that the
safest course of action would be to call Wells Fargo, cancel these checks and
order new ones. And of course, to monitor my account for any unexpected
activity until the checks get canceled.
After dialing their number, punching in my account information (hint:
keep saying "banker" until the automated system transfers you to a real human)
and then repeating this info to the representative, I explain my problem to the
person.
"I can certainly help you with that. How many checks did you say
there were in the box?"
"I didn’t say, and to be honest, I don’t know".
"But would you say more than six?"
Uh? Does it really matter? Fine, I’ll humor them.
"Well, there were probably a few checkbooks in that package, as you
probably already know, so yes, I’d say there were most likely more than six
checks. Why?"
"Well, we can’t cancel more than six checks".
"Excuse me?"
"We can’t cancel more than six checks, sir".
Of course you can, I think, although I can definitely picture this guy using
an application that was written on a mainframe twenty years ago. Right
now, he must be staring at a monochrome monitor showing six text fields and
having to justify this to a slowly but increasingly aggravated customer over the
phone that this is meant for their own protection.
"Are you serious? When I ordered the checks, you asked me what
numbers I wanted, so you know exactly the range of these checks, can’t you just
cancel the whole range?"
"No, sir".
Long silence as I’m shaking my head in disbelief and contemplating my next
step.
"So what are my options?"
"Your best bet is to close your account and open a new one".
"Are you serious?"
"Yes, sir"
"Look, closing my checking account is a big deal. I have been a
customer for eight years, and I won’t do that unless you can give me a very good
reason".
"I’m sorry, sir, that’s the only option. It’s for your protection".
"No, the best option for my protection and my comfort is for you to cancel
the range of checks you just sent me".
"We can’t do that, sir"
I take a deep breath. I’m that close to raising my voice, something
that I rarely ever do, but reason takes over and I calm down.
"Fine. I’ll just reorder new checks".
I figure that if the checks have indeed been stolen and someone starts
issuing them, I can always dispute them on the basis that they won’t have my
signature. How naive of me…
"Very well, sir, but before we do that, I need to bring my supervisor in".
"Really? Why?"
"Because she needs to confirm with you that you are waiving protection
against fraudulent checks, sir".
"What?!?"
"If you don’t mind holding, sir, I’ll call her right now".
Pause. I’m on hold again. I’m beginning to tap my fingers
nervously on my desk, because these last words certainly left me with a very
uncomfortable feeling. I have no intention of waiving anything, and I hope
this supervisor has a good explanation for what’s going on.
"Hello sir, my name is April and I’m the supervisor. Do I understand
correctly that you are waiving your protection against your stolen checks?"
"Hello April, and no, I’m not waiving anything. I just called to
notify you that checks might have been stolen, and it’s not my problem if your
system can’t cancel more than six checks at a time. Why would I suddenly
waive a protection against fraudulent checks that’s always been in effect ever
since checks were created?"
"Sir, by calling us, you admit that you know your checks are stolen, so if
you refuse to close your account per our advice, you are now liable for any
check issued"
"Are you saying that I would still be covered if I hadn’t called
you?"
I’ll spare you the five minutes of circular arguments that followed this
question, during which she carefully avoided the question. I’m not one to
let go, though, so I kept repeating my question, and she finally admitted:
"Yes, I understand where you are coming from, sir, but that’s the way it
is"
"You do understand how ridiculous this sounds? You are basically
telling me that next time my checks get stolen, I’ll get better protection if I
don’t call you".
"I’m sorry, sir", she said, carefully avoiding the question again.
"Let me ask you a different question: if Wells Fargo cashes a check
that doesn’t bear my signature, how can I be liable for it?"
"You wouldn’t, sir, but since you called us to notify us that your checks
were stolen…"
I interrupt her, since I know exactly where this is headed again.
"Hold on. Are you saying that Wells Fargo doesn’t check for
signatures at all?"
This is a trick question, because everybody knows that banks and financial
institutions never check for signatures, which makes some kind of perverted
sense. Sure enough, she dodges the issue again and she comes back to
blaming me for calling them in the first place. I decide to change tactics
and see if this gets me anywhere.
"To be honest with you, should Wells Fargo ever clear a check that doesn’t
bear my signature, I would go to court to protect my rights".
"You wouldn’t be suing Wells Fargo in this case, sir, but the vendor".
"What?!?"
"Wells Fargo is only an intermediary, we just move money around. The
person you’d have to sue is the vendor who accepted the check, or the person who
issued the fraudulent check".
I don’t even know where to start with this one, but it’s pretty clear to me
that I’m no longer the only one in this conversation trying to protect my butt.
"I understand that you will never admit this, especially since we are most
likely on record, but I just want to emphasize how ridiculous I think this
conversation and the whole situation is".
"So, should we put your account on hold, sir?"
"Wait, are you saying there is a middle ground? Could I disable
checks for my account for a little while and then restore them in the near
future?"
"Mmmh… no, sir, if we put your account on hold, it will eventually be
closed"
I can’t say I didn’t see this coming.
"How about this idea then, is it possible to just refuse to cash any
checks on this account for a period of time without leading to the closure of
this account?"
"No, sir. Are you willing to close your account and open a new one, sir?"
"At this point, I’m very much willing to close my account, but I won’t be
opening a new one with Wells Fargo".
I politely thanked her, hang up, fumed for a little while at my desk and
promptly opened an account with Bank of America. At the moment, I’m making
a list of all the actions I need to take to make sure I transfer all my
accounting to the new account, and I’m hoping I won’t forget any.
Good bye, Wells Fargo, I won’t miss you.
#1 by Kly on January 15, 2007 - 7:37 pm
About all the victim-blaming going on here: It is the right of any reasonable person to expect that other people will be law-abiding. We have a further right to expect that a signature means something to a bank. That’s part of what ‘being law-abiding’ means. And we have a right to expect that our rights will not be abrogated simply by the act of informing the bank that a crime has been committed.
#2 by Alex on January 15, 2007 - 10:33 pm
This happened to me once with BofA and they actually did cancel an entire book of checks without charging me anything.
That said, I am unhappy with BofA for several reasons–mainly that their interest rates are crap–but I’ve never had any problems with their customer service.
#3 by Anonymous on January 15, 2007 - 10:37 pm
Close the account. Hold on checks only last for 6 months.
#4 by NoMakeSense on January 16, 2007 - 1:32 am
That story doesnt make sense, from Wells Fargo own website:
“There is no fee for placing stop payments on lost or stolen blank checks.”
I’ve had enough luck with wells fargo as far as cancelling fees I was not aware of. It was for bill pay, it is free as long as you have a certain balance, but I did not read the small print. I used bill pay a few time without a fee, then my balance went under the required amount, so I got charged a fee the next month, then I stop using bill pay but the fee where still there every month. I sent an email, (via their website) asking them to disable my bill pay and void at least the fee for the month i didnt use the service. They did so, and they even refunded the fee for the month I used bill pay…
So pretty good.
And I think they are pretty paranoid about security, they called quite a few time when I had unusual expenses, to verify it was not fraud. Thats reassuring.
#5 by Collette on January 16, 2007 - 6:29 am
Bank of America charges you $6 to cazh* a check if you don’t have an account with them. It would cost less to go to one of those usurious check cazhing counters that you see in poor neighborhoods.
*(misspelled to appease the spam filter gods)
#6 by Dale C on January 16, 2007 - 6:34 am
Ya’ll really don’t know the real problem do you??
It’s not the bank that even knows this stuff, Bank of America and Washington Mutual are the only two banks I havn’t seen at West Telemarketing. Yes I used to work there as Earthlink Tech Support until they shipped everything to India. So the problems you have when you call your bank isn’t with the bank, West’s policy is to get the caller off the line as fast as possible, whether the problem is solved or not! And if the process takes longer than 1 min 30 secs, you don’t do it, no matter what the client (bank) says. Another thing, West doesn’t do background checks so you have no idea who is looking at your banking info. I no longer work there I was fired for “whistle blowing”, I am now permantly banned from ever working at any West Call Center again. By the way I bank at WaMu now, a friend of my works there and the only time they outsourced was when they were moving the bulk of they’re call center to a new location. I think I’m going to stick with them.
#7 by shifuimam on January 16, 2007 - 6:57 am
“I’d say USAA”
Um..don’t you have to be a member of the military or a first or second generation immediate descendant of a member of the military to use USAA?
But, yeah, if you can use them, go with USAA. A+ customer service (although my last car insurance claim sucked – the other guy’s agent was more helpful than the women I spoke with from USAA), no-cost online bill pay, and 10 free ATM transactions anywhere.
#8 by John on January 16, 2007 - 8:51 am
That was dumb. Closing your checking account to open a new one is a big deal? Why?
Your money is protected by the validity of the account number- not the signature, or stopping a ‘range’ of checks. I never heard of anyone trying that before.
You could have opened a second account, transfered the funds from the first to the second, and closed the first, all within the same phone call. I’ll bet you might have done that if they offered it first before stating they could only cancel 6 checks at a time.
I get the idea from your blog that you are more interested in dwelling in conflict than accepting a reasonable resolution. This is evident not only by what happened, but also by the narrative transcript you provided to tell your story. You are looking for people to take your side.
Observe, acknowledge, and move on.
#9 by Norm on January 16, 2007 - 9:32 am
Wells Fargo was right, the correct move is to cancel the account.
A few years back I had 8 checks forged on my BofA account. The person got my account number somewhere and printed their own checks. As long as the forger has your account number they can create their own checks.
Closing the old account and opening a new account took a few minutes. The biggest problem was the wait for a new ATM card and changing the account numbers on PayPal and/or other financial institutions that link to the account. I also had to tell BofA what checks I had written on the old account so they could allow those to clear.
#10 by Taz on January 16, 2007 - 10:04 am
I’ve had checking accounts since I was 18, and now at 54, I’m feeling disappointed that I’ve never experienced such frustration. Oh wait, maybe because I DID close my account when checks went missing, and didn’t make a big deal out of it. BofA is a big, impersonal bank, so what else is new? Cancel the effin’ account and either open a new one there or move to another bank. Sheesh.
With all the problems that can occur in banking, being a d*khead about things seems to be the wrong way to handle it.
#11 by Sam on January 16, 2007 - 11:29 am
My God what a mess you created. Why not just close the account; what is the big deal? You made this issue, you created pain for yourself, and now your are complaining about it. Shut up and open a new account like you were advised to do. If someone has your checks, you getting new ones does not protect you at all. Dip shit, do you expect Wells Fargo to take the fall from someone drawing on your account since you were too lazy to get the box out of your mailbox when you had the chance to? Idiots like you cause bank fees to rise and rates to fall.
#12 by Sam on January 16, 2007 - 11:29 am
My God what a mess you created. Why not just close the account; what is the big deal? You made this issue, you created pain for yourself, and now your are complaining about it. Shut up and open a new account like you were advised to do. If someone has your checks, you getting new ones does not protect you at all. Dip shit, do you expect Wells Fargo to take the fall from someone drawing on your account since you were too lazy to get the box out of your mailbox when you had the chance to? Idiots like you cause bank fees to rise and rates to fall.
#13 by mr stimulation on January 16, 2007 - 12:30 pm
TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO MENTION THE MAILBOX –
TO ALLLL THE PEOPLE THAT MENTION IDENTITY THEFT::
Here is another bank pain in the butt that can put you at risk!!!!!
WIRE TRANSFERS…
Every bank offers this as a “service”.
To receive one the sender needs your name (on the account), address, the location of the branch where you openned the account, your acct number and a special routing number for wire transfers.. I realized that the only thing missing was the ACTUAL routing number on my checks. If the sender SIMPLY OBTAINED MY ROUTING NUMBER, he/she could auto debit my acct, write echecks, etc…. BoA confirmed this to be true. I then discovered that the ROUTING # on your check is based on the state where you openned the account and ANYONE can call BoA and get that info over the phone.. ANYONE! I’m going to assume that all you have to say is, “I’m trying to do ‘x’ and I need the routing number for ‘state’.”
So — what good is offering a service that puts your acct at risk???
I asked the BoA rep and her supervisor why the bank would offer such a service if it put their customer accts at risk.. The response — thats the only way we can do it…
Wow.
Even Paypal is better at such things…
Sigh…
#14 by shauna on January 16, 2007 - 2:28 pm
I completely understand where you are coming from. My bank is just as bad about not wanting to help or fix their own mistakes. But I feel like it is a bigger hassle to change banks than it is to fix the problem. I’ve been saying I’m gonna switch for 2 years and ain’t done it yet.
#15 by alx on January 17, 2007 - 2:04 am
I also had Wells Fargo and they gave me ass, so I switched to Safe Credit Union and I like it more!
#16 by Paul on January 17, 2007 - 10:59 am
I bank at a credit union. I do use checks for some things. I lost a pad of checks while on a trip. I called my credit union, and they simply asked for a starting and ending check number. No list of individual checks, just the range. They also offered and I accepted placing a security password on the account, which I’d have to provide when talking to customer service.
Oh, and no charge for the stop request either.
#17 by Alicia C Simpson on January 17, 2007 - 10:21 pm
Banking systems are still in the 20th century. It is amazing that banks have not updated their systems to enable canceling a range of checks.
If enough people switch banks when things like this happen, maybe they will.
Unfortunately, the author is going to find that BoA tends to nickel and dime their customers to death. He has effectively jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. Bank of America is the worst banking institution in this country.
However, switching banks WAS a good idea, if only to induce banks to improve their services.
#18 by ShelleyMarie on January 18, 2007 - 10:33 am
I have accounts with Citibank, Bank of America, Capital One, and Wells Fargo, all together for the last decade. I’ve had good and bad experiences with them. After a decade, I honestly can say that Citibank is by far the best. Wells Fargo, based on my experince alone, is by far the worse in terms of customer service in all areas of banking. I only have one account left in Wells Fargo to move, a mortgage account. I would be so happy to give the business to another bank. Someday, I’ll get around to moving it without costing me much:)
#19 by BIg Al on January 18, 2007 - 10:28 pm
Bad move. If anything, B of A is worse than WF.
You’re better off going with a small bank that actually gives a shiznit about your bizniss.
#20 by MA on January 23, 2007 - 6:14 am
I would have just hung up the phone.
#21 by Gary on January 24, 2007 - 6:57 am
Thank you for not just lying down and taking it. What is required in order to get companies to change idiotic policies is to 1.) Not use their services anymore. How many banks are there in the world? 1,000,006? They are easier to replace than Indian service reps. 2) Tell everyone you know. The old saying in journalism is “Never pick a fight with someone who buys their ink by the barrel.” The 21st century version is “Never pick a fight with someone who buys their ones and zeroes by the the GB!” If enough people stop tolerating nonsense like this and spread the word around then idiotic policies, and, by extension, idiotic companies would begin to disappear.
#22 by tom on January 24, 2007 - 3:01 pm
I say you should find some of your old unused checks and use them to buy stuff and you really won’t be paying for them because your account is on hold.
#23 by Jack on January 25, 2007 - 1:25 am
Original poster is a total fuccking moron. His checks are stolen and account number is compromised. Thus the crook has eveything he needs: name, address, routing number, and account number.
Check numbers? Fuccking useless to prevent fraud. There was only one solution: cancelling the account. Frankly, I wish the bank had sent you some more checks, and laughed right in your stupid face after your account was drained with some easy Western Union transfer (a ten-year-old could pull it off). Even better: crook places order for higher-number check, then robs this idiot’s account. God I wished that had happened.
And if I were the branch manager, I would have bitchslapped you right the fucck out of the branch and told you to never set foot inside again.
Original posting fuccktard needs to learn something about banking and fraud. Watch “Catch Me If You Can” for an imbecile primer, dopeshiit.
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